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As I see it, there are several important things which remain, most, have foremote in my mind,

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and the reason I'm going to speak of, not to give you detail or word for word of what the report consisted of.

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And the first thing that comes to mind in this subject is, as we were talking with Peter and Charles and then to go about Dr. Ken Houston,

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who in fact saw something at the time of the Sputnik, a place called Warnmere where he was stationed in New Guinea in 1959.

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The Russian satellite should have been going in one direction and he saw it going in the opposite direction.

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And he theorized, rightly so I guess, that it's been a following day that it must have been a flying saucer.

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And this is the first occasion which I'd ever heard anybody refer to flying saucers as such.

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And there was a gathering about the size of this tonight, all sitting around the table and then the Sputnik got off the flying saucers

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and of course nobody but Dr. Ken Houston really believed they existed.

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Sometime after this, and I say sometime, it was a matter of months, I was coming back from a three week walkabout.

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A walkabout is a patrol and it was my job at that particular time in 1959 to be an inspector of schools.

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There were 12 schools in the very large district, some of them up in the old San Diego Ranges,

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and it was my job to go around and check on them and as an inspector might do.

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And then on my way back, the normal thing was to catch a whale boat, have a whale boat waiting for me at a particular spot

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and to go back along the coast.

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And as on this particular night as I was drawing into my home station, somewhere between 7 and 8, I guess,

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I looked across towards the mountains, the mountain range, the mountain which I knew very well.

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And there I saw what I thought was a tilly lamp.

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A tilly lamp is a precious paraffin lamp and at a distance it sparkles, rather like the magnesium children's plateings,

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what they call sparkles, rather like this in the thick, except that it's draught.

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And I took it to be a tilly lamp and it was only afterwards that I thought may be it was not.

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In fact, I thought that it could not have been, because on this particular mountain, which is something over 2,000 feet high,

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it is rather desolate and certainly there are no gardens there.

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Certainly nobody in his right mind would be up there without a particular reason,

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such as being a member of a geographical society or something like this, in this description,

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and certainly nobody would be up there at night with a tilly lamp.

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Now these thoughts pass through my mind as I gaze up to this light from the sea,

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but still it was far from the subject of flying saucers,

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and so I accepted that there was just somebody who was stupid enough to please it.

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When I arrived home, however, again I was rather remote from the subject, because I was not well informed,

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neither was I really interested in the subject of the US age.

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But when I arrived home, one of my head teachers, a native Papua teacher,

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by the name of Stephen Moy, Gil, which might sound about suspicious,

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he came to me and said,

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last Sunday night I saw a rather strange thing, you know all that there is to know about strange things,

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you tell me what it is.

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And then he described, and I've written this down,

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and it's a letter that I wrote to a friend of mine, David Dewey,

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who was the head and principal of the Sunday's Teachers College,

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he described an object over the sea,

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and I asked him all kinds of questions about it, its size, its shape,

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was it like a six-cent, was it like a plate,

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and each time he came back he said, no, it was like a saucer,

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this is the nearest thing that I can relate it to.

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And I'm assuming that at least a few people here who have read that letter,

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if you haven't, Mr. Aaron Heelich, that you have a copy of it to see.

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And it was from then that I became rather curious,

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and remember how I signed it today to David Dewey,

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who later on, by the way, was able to sign another statement that he and his wife

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had seen with flying saucer, but before this of course he was interested,

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academic grade, but not terribly convinced.

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So, why did I sign myself as a doubting bill?

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Now you see with this signature, this is going back in retrospect,

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in this signature there was some however forming in my mind the possibility of these things.

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The integrity in my mind of Stephen Lloyd could never be doubted.

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I had extreme trust and faith in him as a character and as an honest person.

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And Frederick and I were mentioning just a short time ago about, in fact,

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the significance and importance of having doubts,

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the scientists having doubts and how this can lead then to research and investigation.

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So I guess I must have been at this kind of stage.

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And then, of course, before I think about it,

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are then the actual findings that might occur.

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Now, not talking about actual incident law or why it was, how it was recorded,

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but the few things that stand most in, for most of my mind.

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This is going back now 11 and a half years.

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And there are some things which are tremendously vivid.

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I'll mention them.

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The rights that I mentioned before, which seem like too many,

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this remains most vivid, a vivid pictorial impression in my mind.

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An outline of the saucer, a separated portion or a dark portion between it

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and this sparkling light.

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So there's a light, outline, darkness, and the object itself.

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That is most vivid.

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Another most vivid thing is the shaft of blue electric lights

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emanating from the top of the craft up towards the heavens.

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An electric blue light, rather, I think I describe as an insult with light.

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Another very vivid impression remains there, without any doubts at all,

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but in my own mind in any case that I saw it.

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And that is the waving men.

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I saw Amy Michelle on Saturday.

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He said, you know, there's a character also who saw somebody wave,

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and I said, well, that's me.

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He said, oh, that's you.

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And so he's going to become even more interested.

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But this, in fact, is one thing which I just can't count

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in quite a part of my mind.

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That's something that looked human waves in this apparent response

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to the way his weight would have been gained.

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Now, outside of the report itself, there were one or two incidents

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which I reported because I felt that this was going to be a reasonable report

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and it was going to be entered.

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Although I didn't attach any theories about whether they were connected

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to the effect of the sighting or not.

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One was this ear splitting sound noise, like a gum report, I guess,

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or something which had been out of my experience before.

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That evening, it was overcast, and I was inside,

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and there was this great noise.

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I looked out the window and could see nothing.

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Some people would ask me whether I smelled anything.

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I don't recall smelling anything either.

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But that's the noise which will always remain with me.

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The other one was also a noise, and it was getting after sighting,

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and that was the noise of something had been dropped from the great height,

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some metallic conscience, I guess, being dropped from the great height

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onto the galvanized iron roof of one of the,

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where in fact there was a petition of the building I was in.

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So convinced I was that something had been dropped

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that I got somebody to climb up the next morning to examine the roof,

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and nobody could find any article, nobody could find any dent.

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What that was, whether it was connected with the events of the night, I have no idea.

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But I wrote those down, and as a supplement or agenda, rather than a thousand reported silver.

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But why did I report this thing?

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Why didn't I just stand and look, and tell a story afterwards?

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Well this I suppose was in fact that I had been doing some, a bit of journalistic work,

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and also that I had been doing some other study,

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and I was in the habit of carrying paper and pencil for this very thing.

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And I suppose when I first saw this object,

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and it distinguished it from Venus, because it was in virtually the same direction,

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that I thought well now, this is what I've been waiting for, I guess I thought this.

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This is what I've been waiting for.

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This is the sort of thing that nobody would believe unless I write it down.

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In fact I wouldn't believe it unless I write it down either, because you know how it is,

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especially in the tropics, I didn't have any whiskey on board,

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but you never know that people might or might not believe that.

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And I wrote this down minute by minute, whenever anything happened I put it down,

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and it was just as simple as that.

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I had a rather academic approach to it, I was not excited,

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not that I remember, certainly I had a calm enough mind to be able to record the events

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without any trouble.

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I wonder too, is the reason for the same, well rather the same behavior in the part of the natives,

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because I treated it as a reasonable sort of thing rather than becoming agitated.

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And I believe that had I become terribly excited, they would have become terribly excited too,

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had I been in fear they would have been.

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I feel that they were watching me fully, because it was out of their experience,

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I asked them afterwards had they ever seen anything like this before,

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Stephen Moyer of course had a different kind of thing,

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but he was the only one really, he was possibly more interested in it than I would have imagined.

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Well, this is a brief outline of the sort of the reminiscing,

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and I feel that you know as much about these sightings as I do myself by now,

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that have been passed from person to person, I was in Birmingham a week ago,

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I picked up a book on UFOs, and I was surprised to find there,

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I can't tell you what the title was now, but I think it was 7 for about 5 or 6.

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And what I saw, and how I saw it and the reason for my seeing it,

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I feel ashamed to tell you, but there it was.

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This is not the first occasion, of course I've seen things like this,

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but apart from that, that sort of thing, you know the kind of,

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you know what I feel, is that right?

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Everybody's familiar with what I wrote in those days,

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and well, if they're not, they soon will be.

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I'm very happy to make clear any other little points perhaps that people might be interested in.

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It wouldn't make you very much in deep.

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Who they like you are.

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I have a question, Mr. Chairman,

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when you saw this thing and looked at it,

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and I appreciate it, this could only be a subjective impression of your answer at all,

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did you have an impression of being observed?

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No, I didn't.

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We're going to be settled down.

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Everybody has.

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No, you didn't.

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Thank you very much.

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Well, I tell you why.

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Because you've seen the people on the crowd,

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let's assume they're people, and we've got to start somewhere,

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they were more interested in what they were doing on the crowd than in us.

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This would be an impression we got.

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I can't stop the next question by saying,

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I've had that misunderstanding for so long,

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I've been sitting there for so long,

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but I can't understand what you were saying about it.

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I was just a little worried about something waving to you.

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I wasn't just a little worried, sir.

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Yes, but there was a measure of definition of observation.

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Yes.

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I think in my report you will see that they waved,

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and then they carried on with whatever the business was.

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I'm very happy.

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Very funny.

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We thought four.

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Four ways.

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Not one.

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There were four things as though there were four things.

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It was all waving in front of us.

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That's one.

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They didn't wave.

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Not very altogether, no.

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How many people have observed?

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37.

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What is it? 35 or 37?

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30.

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How many actual sightings?

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Two nights, which we could really be certain of.

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But more witnesses to person.

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Yes, that's right.

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What is your report, sir?

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Well, David Durie, the man I mentioned at the Teachers College,

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was my first correspondent.

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I asked him actually, Norman Cutwell,

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Ken and Norman Cutwell,

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was on the toll at that particular time.

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And I mentioned to David Durie,

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asking him whether he thought it would be worth,

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or whether Norman Cutwell would be interested,

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because Norman Cutwell has been an unofficial conifer

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of sightings that have been going on in New Zealand,

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you're getting to the moment.

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He had been keeping records of people

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who had been coming in from all kinds of places,

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up in the hills,

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and along the coast and on boats,

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such recordings as moons exploding,

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this kind of thing.

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I just don't remember how many there were,

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but a fairly number of them.

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And so I mentioned to David,

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did he think Norman would be interested?

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I sent a copy over to Norman.

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Norman then sent it on to Brisbane,

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and the Brisbane people engaged in the babies.

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That's how it came out.

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00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,000
Could I ask, we've read a lot in recent years

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about some popular accounts of the cargo cult

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among the people who get in it.

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Now, I was curious to know

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whether any of your native people there were mission,

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whether any of them were inclined to interpret it,

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in terms of that?

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Not where I was.

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I was rather more sophisticated.

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Not that we, I suppose,

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that's the wrong way to use,

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because quite a number of sophisticated people

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who still believe in the cargo cult,

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but it's not that particular area.

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It's up to mention questions.

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Two of those ones have just been asked.

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You did say earlier that there was one man

238
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,000
in whom you had complete confidence,

239
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,000
who had to breathe his experience,

240
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,000
because he was a transferan,

241
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,000
and one of whom you had complete trust,

242
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,000
who was integrity of trust.

243
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,000
Are you aware that he was a transferan?

244
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,000
And did he have visions,

245
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,000
or did he have a means of communication

246
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,000
with the government, or had he ever

247
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,000
interested in your role in the psyche?

248
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,000
Not in the formal sense.

249
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,000
Not in the formal sense.

250
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,000
You're not aware that he was a transferan?

251
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,000
No. This was the only, to my knowledge,

252
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,000
but he was one of the...

253
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,000
One of what made you feel that he was

254
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,000
convicted reliable in the spirit?

255
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,000
No. Completely trustworthy.

256
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,000
And as a observer?

257
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,000
No. As a person,

258
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,000
a person who is statements,

259
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,000
I have no reason to doubt.

260
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,000
He has neither before nor since,

261
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,000
as he has communicated with me,

262
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,000
that he's seen or heard anything

263
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,000
that's not a person.

264
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,000
Were you able to ever make rough decisions?

265
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,000
No. I was away from you after the object

266
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,000
when you decided to die.

267
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,000
Was it the first or the second time?

268
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,000
No. At the time,

269
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,000
beside members, there was no reason to wave,

270
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,000
other than just to wave,

271
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,000
because this thing was there,

272
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,000
and there seemed to be people up.

273
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,000
And you wanted to have that as miles

274
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,000
or hundreds of yards.

275
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,000
Can you get it as near as that?

276
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,000
No. A hundred feet.

277
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,000
Yes.

278
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,000
It was dark.

279
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,000
It was dark.

280
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,000
It was dark.

281
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,000
And then, of course,

282
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,000
it went into darkness.

283
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,000
And was it self-illuminant?

284
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,000
Yes.

285
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,000
So it really was sawed by its own light, almost.

286
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,000
That's right.

287
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,000
Because after,

288
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,000
after, say, 630,

289
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,000
it was...

290
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,000
there was no light apart from the stars.

291
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,000
I don't remember if it stopped at over an hour or more.

292
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,000
It was just a little distant.

293
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,000
Yes. Yes.

294
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,000
Quite a long time.

295
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,000
Sure.

296
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,000
I hope you could elaborate on those questions of distance

297
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,000
and personality.

298
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,000
Ah, calculate.

299
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,000
Yes.

300
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,000
Any mathematical distance.

301
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,000
No, I keep quiet.

302
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,000
Because this is my problem.

303
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:16,000
I was aware that

304
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,000
the importance of...

305
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,000
One of the important things for me is to try to estimate the size of the craft.

306
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,000
So I have to assume one or two things.

307
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:32,000
Most importantly, I have to assume that the figures were of, say, average size.

308
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:41,000
Now, the average size of a parkour would be about 5, 4, 7, 5, 8, as a normal man.

309
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,000
And, um...

310
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:50,000
So the next day, I got one of my average size school pupils

311
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:58,000
and marched him across the playing field until he became the size of the things on the craft.

312
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,000
And I just measured my hand.

313
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,000
Now, whether this is the right way to go about it or not,

314
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,000
whether elevations make any difference or not, I wouldn't know.

315
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,000
But that doesn't matter.

316
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,000
This is what I have to do.

317
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:18,000
And once we got him there, then my hand span, which was roughly about 5 inches,

318
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,000
I had to correct that at one stage, I said 8 inches.

319
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:30,000
And then I realized that, in fact, when I was not conscious about having my hand up for a span,

320
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,000
that in fact it was a lot less.

321
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,000
And so I had to then read just from 8 to 5 inches.

322
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:42,000
And so then we got out across and I measured across one of the school buildings

323
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,000
and told them then to get there a little foot rule or yard rule or something

324
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,000
and measure the distance.

325
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,000
And we got around what was it?

326
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,000
30 feet, 30 feet feet.

327
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,000
Something like that.

328
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,000
This is the diameter of the craft.

329
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,000
This was no...

330
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,000
I wouldn't say diameter, it was the length.

331
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,000
The length.

332
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,000
The length as we saw it.

333
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,000
What shape was it?

334
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,000
What shape was it?

335
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,000
We assumed it was a disc.

336
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,000
It was a round thing.

337
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,000
It was a very depth.

338
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,000
A cylindrical disc.

339
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,000
A cylindrical disc.

340
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000
Yes, cylindrical.

341
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,000
Circular.

342
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,000
Circular.

343
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Yes, it had depth.

344
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,000
Yes.

345
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,000
And width.

346
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,000
It didn't have to be super structured.

347
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,000
I thought it might be a little bit of a smell.

348
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,000
It didn't determine the shape.

349
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,000
In what I described in my report as a super structure,

350
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:38,000
it would seem to be the rounder like the top of the both deck.

351
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,000
What do I call it?

352
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,000
Wait, the top of the deck?

353
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,000
The top of the deck.

354
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,000
Super structure.

355
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000
That was the cylindrical disc.

356
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,000
The cylindrical disc.

357
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,000
Sorry.

358
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,000
It was cylindrical this thing.

359
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,000
Do you have anything coming up about that?

360
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,000
No.

361
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,000
Yes, there was a deck structure.

362
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,000
There were two parts on it.

363
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,000
What I call the body of the craft.

364
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,000
And then there was what I interpreted as a super structure on top of that.

365
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,000
What shape was that?

366
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,000
It reminded us, because we were right on the case.

367
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:17,000
And it reminded us of the super structure on the deck of a craft.

368
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,000
Well, who was on that?

369
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,000
Yes, they were.

370
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,000
Not on top of it.

371
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,000
But as far as I was behind it, in fact, we could see no legs.

372
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,000
We assumed that there was some way upwards, if what you say.

373
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000
Well, they were there.

374
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000
Yes, and it seemed as though a cover-up.

375
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,000
We couldn't identify and cover-up it.

376
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,000
Do you have any consideration for this?

377
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,000
I do not.

378
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,000
Any consideration for this deck?

379
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,000
We didn't have any...

380
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,000
I don't think we even had a camera, but we certainly had no film.

381
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,000
We had no binoculars.

382
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,000
Nothing like it.

383
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,000
I mean, we were expecting it to stay.

384
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,000
And the distance again?

385
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:06,000
At one stage, I thought, 300, 400 feet, something like that, at the nearest point.

386
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,000
At the furthest?

387
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,000
The furthest.

388
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,000
You mean when it was taken away?

389
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:20,000
The cloud cover I estimated on the 5th of Mountain was about 2,000 feet, and it was under the cloud cover.

390
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,000
That's 2,000 feet between the quarter and 3 miles away from here?

391
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000
I guess so.

392
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,000
You see, how many does he want the nearest point?

393
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,000
What I assumed was the size of the...

394
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,000
The nearest, not the third.

395
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,000
The observations are based on the nearest and not the third.

396
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,000
And my observations are to mention the craft, yes.

397
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000
And all these figures, that this is the nearest.

398
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,000
300 feet away from the top, you say?

399
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,000
Not probably about 2 miles away.

400
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,000
Couldn't see that.

401
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,000
No, I'm talking between...

402
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Let's say between 300 feet and 2,000 feet.

403
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,000
No, no, no, let's not...

404
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000
No, let's not.

405
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Let's not.

406
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,000
That's an optimum.

407
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,000
6,000 feet from here.

408
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,000
I remember the other surprise I had was here.

409
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:29,000
I tend to expect to see the surprise before we begin to visualize what we're seeing.

410
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,000
I look at you, I see what you're seeing.

411
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,000
Yes.

412
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,000
But you, if you came out of the sea and the list, you know, I was not expecting you.

413
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,000
And it made me find it was fine before I...

414
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,000
Yeah, yeah, let's say it was the other way around.

415
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:51,000
He was very impressed with the visibility of the people when they were at the coast.

416
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,000
And then as they received it, continued to see the fish that she had just come.

417
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,000
So they didn't, they should not see the fish.

418
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,000
As it was seen, they could see it through the external eye.

419
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:09,000
That's right. The truth is that, regarding from pre-pression, I can't give dates or times,

420
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:14,000
but there was a stage when the clouds cover, I estimated about 2,000 feet,

421
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,000
judging on the height of the other mountain, where it goes to about a couple of miles away.

422
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,000
When it was under that, and there was a glow-reflective promise,

423
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:29,000
emanating from it or seemed to be, on to be, on the surface of the clouds.

424
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,000
So therefore, it must have been around another 2,000 feet.

425
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:39,000
And then at the stage when it came closer, and in my report, I had mastered it,

426
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,000
we thought it was going to land, in fact, we began waving, hoping that it would.

427
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:50,000
The situation of being, well, the remote button coming nearer,

428
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:56,000
I thought when I began to approach it now, the situation was that you would have seen it nearer

429
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,000
and the water was receiving. We did that, we watched it come and go.

430
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,000
The reflection on the surface of the cloud, which you just about to do,

431
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:11,000
was this orange or yellow or rosy-eight or red, or how would you describe the colour?

432
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
In your head, perhaps.

433
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,000
What is it of an even colour, or did it just, I think so.

434
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,000
I think so.

435
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:26,000
I'm not saying that it could be, say, orange or yellow or brighter.

436
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,000
Orange or yellow for today's?

437
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,000
No, really, it's too far away from what I see in the time, though.

438
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,000
Can you describe the colour of the brighter base?

439
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:41,000
No, that's 11 years and a long time.

440
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:49,000
What I can say is that it tended to be a more yellowy light of the cloud,

441
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:57,000
in contrast to the white moving like a mountain.

442
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:03,000
Yes, I asked you a seemingly odd question as to whether you were conscious of being observed

443
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,000
from the base of the dish, rather silly, and you were looking at something you'd like to see.

444
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,000
That's the way I was used to know.

445
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:15,000
I meant, now, that this, did you have any sort of feeling of a physical kind?

446
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:22,000
Did you have the feeling of a social rabbit, suddenly focusing your attention and unable to divert it?

447
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:29,000
Or did you have any sort of tingling that you, as a frightened person, might feel as if it was a ghost around?

448
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:36,000
In other words, were there any subjective, physical reactions to this that you couldn't recall?

449
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,000
Only once.

450
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,000
Which was?

451
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,000
And that was the time of that noise I spoke of.

452
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:46,000
Yes, and your reaction to that was what?

453
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:58,000
Our startle, and there was certainly some kind of emotional reaction, but I can't really discover physical, I guess, a little reaction.

454
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:06,000
No, there was no reaction in the sense that there was some outside force acting towards me.

455
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,000
Did it make any noise at all?

456
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000
No, no noise, no smell.

457
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,000
There was a lot of noise.

458
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:24,000
The only noises that were made were, in fact, when the craft was not visible to me, it was outside, or gone.

459
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:32,000
And I recorded, and mainly because they happened, not because I made any connection, a necessary connection with the scientist.

460
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,000
One sort of psychological effect, I will address it in a minute.

461
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:44,000
Did you notice any talk of a sense of, I mean, just a feeling of it?

462
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,000
No.

463
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,000
The reaction, in any way?

464
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,000
No.

465
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:54,000
I made some preliminary remarks to report articles about this kind of thing.

466
00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:02,000
And I suggested there, there were many suggestions, which I made, which I made virtually no comment about.

467
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000
There are only suggestions that passed through my mind.

468
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:15,000
And one of them was this kind of thing, that perhaps me, as an authoritative figure, my reaction was then, I think, passed on to the, from the natives.

469
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,000
I was much less sophisticated than I was.

470
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,000
And because I had an objective approach to it, so did that.

471
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:31,000
Now, had I had any other approach, other kind of approach towards it, I believe I would have too.

472
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:48,000
I have to say, in the review, anywhere else, any photographs of the major, or not of this kind, which seems to you,

473
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,000
could there be any resentments to that which is found?

474
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,000
Oh yes, I have, yes.

475
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,000
I can't lie to you, but yes, I have.

476
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:06,000
Not in total, but certain aspects of other sightings are reasonably close to what I had seen.

477
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:19,000
You see, I, you've seen in the photographs, which are submitted to the review, and in every way, they're nearly always technically, they're nearly always technically fair.

478
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:25,000
I'm an optimist by nature, and pessimist by spirit, but I'm not.

479
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,000
I examine everything on its merits.

480
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:35,000
And over a period of several years, examining many photographs, you'll get quite a number of which are obviously fair.

481
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:40,000
But in the things which are not, they're nearly always technically fair.

482
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:54,000
But there are certain resemblances between photographs taken at enormously disparate points, and they have the same kind of structure.

483
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:04,000
I don't look for a technically perfect photograph, but when you have enough bad photographs, which can be related together,

484
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,000
has obviously bad photographs of similar denominations.

485
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:19,000
This is progress of a very miniscule level, but it is progress, and this is as much as one can hope for.

486
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:26,000
And therefore, I'm very interested to know if you've seen any photographs which have been published in the review,

487
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:36,000
which in particular seem to be bad photographs of the sort of denominal which you saw.

488
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:42,000
I can't label any of these either, often I have none, but there are certainly, there are some photographs,

489
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:52,000
sometimes I've partially marked the peter about this in the past, that I myself would say seem to be,

490
00:32:52,000 --> 00:33:00,000
and some of the account written accounts sometimes incredible, sometimes unbelievable that I could not accept.

491
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:07,000
But of course, this is my opinion, because if I have seen one kind, then this is not to say the...

492
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:17,000
But some of the accounts do seem even to me, most remarkable, and sometimes to me unbelievable.

493
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:24,000
There is, of course, there is more than one craft which I saw, that also, as the guys in the report,

494
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:31,000
at one stage I think there were eight, that's the figure that I just...it comes to nine, but I think it was, wasn't it?

495
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,000
Certainly there was an 81 stage. Eight in the sky at one time.

496
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,000
Can you prove?

497
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,000
Yes, well, spread over the sky.

498
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,000
Yes, yes, who was the person who did this?

499
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:54,000
But there was one craft which I drew and described, which was unlike this major craft which I had again talking about,

500
00:33:54,000 --> 00:34:05,000
the mother ship, or the mother craft, it would, in itself, seem to be just a cylinder, from our distance about a quarter of an inch thick.

501
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,000
Still is, though.

502
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:17,000
It is, I'm sorry. It is about a quarter of an inch thick from where we were, and that had little light spots on it,

503
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,000
rectangular light spots, which I suppose were some kind of portholes.

504
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:32,000
Could you please give us some indication of the relationship and time of what you're speaking about now with the initial fighting?

505
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,000
This was all over two days, two nights.

506
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,000
I see.

507
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,000
In two nights.

508
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,000
How long?

509
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:43,000
There were two long stagings which were described in the report.

510
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,000
Now, virtually, these were the only ones which I could identify.

511
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,000
How long?

512
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,000
So, how long?

513
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,000
One was two hours.

514
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,000
Well, it was longer than that, I think.

515
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Wasn't it, though?

516
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,000
Can you remember what figures?

517
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,000
But it was considerable time.

518
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:06,000
There was one stage, I think, when it was very long, yes, when it was 10 to 10 p.m.

519
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:11,000
From about, oh, quarter to six, it looked like 10.

520
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,000
It looked like seven pictures, but it was unrepentant.

521
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:20,000
It looked, of course, a natural or possibly super natural.

522
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,000
Not super natural, as I thought.

523
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,000
No, that's my impression.

524
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:31,000
Would you say there were machines, man-like people going about some sort of operation?

525
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,000
This is exactly as it seemed.

526
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,000
No, that's too much of a quarter of an inch.

527
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,000
What was the quarter of an inch there?

528
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,000
That.

529
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,000
Or a quarter of an inch around the length?

530
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,000
I mean, a quarter of an inch there.

531
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,000
There.

532
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,000
The quarter of an inch there is still the same thing.

533
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,000
But this was a quite a minute sort of thing.

534
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,000
Yes, I see.

535
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,000
Because I'm as good as this was.

536
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000
It's just very well to be here.

537
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:04,000
It just seemed out there at this, which was about a quarter of an inch thick.

538
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,000
But as there is, you know, the density of that, by the shoulders.

539
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,000
That's a quarter of an inch around the length, isn't it?

540
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,000
You mean a quarter of an inch at arm's length?

541
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,000
No, a quarter of an inch as I thought.

542
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,000
Because a quarter of an inch at a hundred yards you can't see, surely.

543
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,000
No, it's not.

544
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,000
That was the image.

545
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,000
That's the image.

546
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,000
That was the image.

547
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,000
The image.

548
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,000
Here's the quarter.

549
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,000
The next thing I see.

550
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,000
That's the quarter of an inch at arm's length.

551
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,000
That was a hundred yards away.

552
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,000
As I saw it, everybody imagined it was at arm's length, I think.

553
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,000
No, it was just as I saw it.

554
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,000
You mean, as I saw it, it seemed to be whatever the distance,

555
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,000
whether it was one yard or one mile, I don't know.

556
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,000
But it was a disc, which to my eyes was about a quarter of an inch thick.

557
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,000
That's your idea.

558
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,000
I'm not saying to this, I'm not one of these fellows who knows how to measure

559
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,000
or what to do with me, that's one thing I'm saying to this guy.

560
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:05,000
If I saw a plane, I only know the, I can only judge the distance of a plane

561
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,000
because I see one on the ground, so I've got to say, model.

562
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,000
But if you can, it's a new kind of plane.

563
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,000
I'm not as lost as they are.

564
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,000
I'm basically saying, I'm not as lost as they are.

565
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,000
No, it's a seven-inch plane.

566
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,000
It's a nine-inch or a half-inch.

567
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,000
Three-quarters of an inch at the maximum.

568
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,000
What?

569
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,000
You see a seven-hundred-seven flying at the maximum.

570
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,000
Three-quarters of an inch to your definition.

571
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,000
That's all.

572
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,000
Mind rocks for this.

573
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,000
Yes.

574
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,000
That's quite a few.

575
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,000
Anyway, that's just it.

576
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,000
Another question.

577
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,000
Yes.

578
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,000
The way you were able to form an opinion as to whether the people,

579
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,000
which you saw are common people, were killed in any way,

580
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,000
or had anything on their heads, or were they just a cloud-dive?

581
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,000
No, they were, well, more than out-dives,

582
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:54,000
but they were seem to be solids,

583
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,000
but there was no indication of phoning.

584
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,000
No color.

585
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,000
No color.

586
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,000
It wasn't the way it was.

587
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:08,000
So, Bill, can you be absolutely sure that there were just people on the deck of the ship offshore?

588
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,000
No, I can't.

589
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,000
I can't be sure about anything.

590
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:16,000
All I can be sure about is the image that I have in my mind of what I saw.

591
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,000
And this had me worried.

592
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:27,000
This is the reason for my getting several of the more educated among me witnesses to get into the corners of the room

593
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,000
and say, now, draw what you saw.

594
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:35,000
And three or four of those drawings are incorporated in the report.

595
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:43,000
And we can see them that there are significant similarities.

596
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,000
That is, say, the object difference.

597
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,000
That's as much as you could possibly hope for.

598
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,000
That's right.

599
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Because people have entirely different ratios of graphic interpretation.

600
00:38:54,000 --> 00:39:01,000
You'll notice, right, you'll notice one of them has in fact viewed it from a thought,

601
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,000
which, of course, was impossible.

602
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,000
But it's probably amazing that one.

603
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:12,000
Bill, didn't you say that the thing took off after the sighting, which you shouldn't possibly have done?

604
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,000
So, I think that excludes the possibility of being in ship.

605
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:23,000
In those days, there were all kinds of rumors about machines, you know, the atomic age and all that.

606
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:29,000
And a hovercraft, I think it was just at the beginning of the age of the hovercraft.

607
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,000
And this could have been a hovercraft to us, which is some kind of, you know,

608
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:41,000
and particularly me as not being more than a man of the humanities rather than a scientist.

609
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:51,000
I was not even prepared at the beginning to really believe that they were not something which was quite from the end.

610
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,000
In those days, it was lucky that they'd shot some of the people who were in the heart of life.

611
00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:04,000
Yes, but for me, you see, and particularly being victim of the world there,

612
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:13,000
the state's impact, big coincides with some of the years on, as I'm saying, the passing away.

613
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,000
It's nothing like a hovercraft, is it?

614
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,000
No.

615
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,000
There's nothing that's supposed to be something you can't have to listen to.

616
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:27,000
It's not like you saw this craft and people did the working on this.

617
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,000
Then a day passed.

618
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,000
Yes.

619
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,000
And during which nothing was there.

620
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,000
That's right.

621
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,000
And then you saw this and other craft, you think.

622
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,000
Yes.

623
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:43,000
Now, it's reasonable to assume you're not the working on something.

624
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,000
I'm not even going to let you discuss this.

625
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:52,000
Of course, you could wonder why after an interval in which to assume that they're not working.

626
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,000
And if you don't, come back.

627
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,000
Yes, I guess that's the second night, I wonder.

628
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,000
And so, it's quite some time after us.

629
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:11,000
Of course, my eyes were rarely off the sky at night, wondering whether I'd ever see such a thing again.

630
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:18,000
But of course, it's not going to report, because there's a particular type of object there before it was meant to be.

631
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,000
But yes, I guess I did, in retrospect.

632
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,000
If you see the gauges and call it that, what about a little bit of Peter, though, something.

633
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:34,000
Then there's a bit of a ramp, you mentioned, as a platter on the corrugated iron roof.

634
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:44,000
I suppose, guessing, I'm not guessing, some sort of effect could be obtained by a downward drag, a considerable force.

635
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,000
Is that your impression as to what it might have been?

636
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,000
No.

637
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,000
It was thought that it was going to be a lot of loose.

638
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,000
The rest is not physically.

639
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,000
Oh, no, not physically, anyway.

640
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,000
So, it wasn't the sort of thing you might get, was it?

641
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,000
No.

642
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:06,000
No, it was rather like, let's say a six inch bolt being dropped from, let's say, 20 or 30 feet.

643
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,000
You felt a grasp.

644
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,000
No.

645
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,000
You felt a sense of the experience of that.

646
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,000
The moment of the, of the, of the, yes.

647
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,000
We had to cross, cut up, cut up, cut up, cut up, cut up, cut up.

648
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,000
You think the world the way you could, the world the way.

649
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,000
And it ties up, of course, the focus, that's the one.

650
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,000
That's the one.

651
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,000
That's the big point.

652
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:32,000
I think what others think, I believe that we are in a show, I believe we can already show

653
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:38,000
that the connection between some of the entities, the entities they are, the detainees,

654
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:45,000
that they are, that the program is identical, some of the entities are maybe identical with what we call the objects.

655
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,000
They will do something that doesn't sound like a public object.

656
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,000
Something.

657
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,000
No.

658
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:57,000
The thing is, I think, shopping, there was nothing, except that there was no, there was no dense,

659
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,000
nothing visible there, much less.

660
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:05,000
I was sorry to get me this way, because it's not the first one, but I think it's the first day of post-sumption.

661
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,000
No, it's a man in the box.

662
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,000
Now, in terms of communication, I'm actually not sure.

663
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:18,000
Did you think that there was a reliance on cars, so you can really think that way, the old,

664
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:25,000
or if there's a particular sponsorship, or if there's some kind of criticism about the master in any class,

665
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,000
what was your feeling?

666
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,000
We felt the fact.

667
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:34,000
Coming to the subject, we felt that they were responding.

668
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,000
That's a deliberately wish to ask your audience.

669
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,000
Yes.

670
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,000
Look, this was our interpretation.

671
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,000
But of course, this may not have happened to me.

672
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,000
Again, it may not have happened to me earlier, but this is how we felt.

673
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,000
Yes.

674
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,000
That's my life.

675
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,000
Because I'm, this is their so long time.

676
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,000
They are your response, not yours.

677
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,000
Our response to them?

678
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,000
Your response to them was?

679
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,000
No response was.